WAS CHRIST WITH GOD BEFORE HE CAME TO THE EARTH???? IF SO GIVE YOUR AWNSER WITH BIBLICAL PROOF!!!!
THE AWNSER FOR THE SECOND QUESTION IS YES....
GENESIS 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
THE KEY WORDS IN THAT SCRIPTURE IS "US"...GOD AND CHRIST
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SOLDIERS4CHRIST
I disagreed with that above statement. This was one of my responses.
Regarding Genesis 1:
quote:
Genesis 1:26a,27 - And Elohim says, We work Adam in our image, after our likeness!... And Elohim creates Adam in His image; He creates Him in the image of Elohim; He creates them male and female.
The reason I used this translation is because this particular translation is a bit more precise in the wording of the Hebrew.
Elohim is the most commonly used Hebrew word for what we in English use as God. Elohim is the plural of Eloah - which
means God or Deity. Most scholars agree that this word (even though its in a plural sense) does not imply a plurality of persons. It indicates God's greatness or His multiple attributes. To be sure, ask a Jewish person that is not in the faith that knows his torah if he believes that the God spoken of in Genesis was
multiple persons because of the word, Elohim? I would venture to say he will emphatically answer no because one of the characteristics that stands out in Jewish faith is their strict adherence to monotheism, or the belief in one indivisible God.
Flanders and Cresson explain this plural usage in Hebrew as:
quote:
The form of the word, Elohim, is plural. The Hebrews pluralized nouns to express greatness or majesty."
Examples of the uses of the word Elohim that are unequivocably portraying one person or personality:
quote:
Genesis 32:30 - And Yaaqov calls the name of the place Peni El: for I saw Elohim face to face and my soul is rescued.
If you remember this story, this is where Jacob wrestled "a man" at the Jabbok river. But just because the word Elohim was used doesn't mean he wrestled men.
In Exodus (32:1,4,5,8,19-20,23,24,31,35) when Moses was coming down the mountain the Israelites made a golden calf (singular) and yet is was referred to as elohim.
In Judges 8:33 for the pagan god Baalberith, elohim was used.
In Judges 11:24 Dagon was referred to as elohim.
In II Kings 1:2,3 Baalzebub, also referred to as elohim. There are many more.
Even scriptures refer to Jesus Christ as Elohim (see Psalm 45:6 and Zechariah 12:8-10; 14:5), yet there was only one God manifest in the flesh.
Why does Genesis 1:26 use "we" and "our", or modern translations, "us" and "our"?
Before sharing, notice that verse 27 it uses the singular showing how God fulfilled verse 26.
quote:
Genesis 2:7 - And Yah Veh Elohim (the Lord God) forms Adam of the dust of the soil and puffs into his nostrils the breath of life; and Adam becomes a living soul.
Somehow, we must reconcile this apparent confliction in terms from plural to singular. First look at what God made in his image - man. Is man multiple persons? No, he's only one person, made up of one personality and one will. This leads me to believe that God is also one being with one personality and one will.
quote:
Isaiah 44:24 - Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Did anyone else work with God to make all of creation? No, for it is written, and He said I did it "by myself."
According to Malachi:
quote:
2:10 - Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
There is only one Father - one God that created man.
If you still think "us" refers to "the Son" as well, then this scripture would be at odds with the scriptures that say "the Son" was not born for another 4,000 years in
Bethlehem. Galatians 4:4 says "the Son" was made of a woman. If the "the Son" was present at the beginning then who was His mother? If "the Son" was a Spirit being, then who was His spirit mother?
There are 4 or 5 considerable interpretations of what "we", "us", "our" can mean and still not negate other scripture.
1(a). Many Jews and Christians see this as a reference to the angels. What? The Jews, traditionally, have interpreted this verse to mean God was talking to the angels. This doesn't say they took part in creation, but rather were present when God was creating man.
quote:
I Kings 22:19-22 - And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
a. God does speak to His angels about what's going on in creation.
1(b).quote:
Job 38:4-7 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
b. The angels were around during the laying of the foundations (of creation). The phrase "sons of God" referred to the angels.
2. Others have said it is a description of God counseling with His own will. An example is if we are alone in our house and we are planning to do something by ourselves and we say "Let's see, what are we going to start with first?" (Let's for Let us) We are simply counseling with ourselves.quote:
Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
3. Another is in formal speaking and writing, the speaker or writer, sometimes refers to himself in the plural (especially if he's a king - royalty)
quote:
Daniel 2:36 - This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
Daniel is alone telling King Nebuchadnezzer his dream, yet he used the plural "we" for himself. For more examples of this see Ezra 4:18, 7:13,24.
4. This can be seen as a pronoun agreeing with the noun. Just like Elohim is a plural word denoting greatness and majesty of God, yet it is seen used to describe singular things.
To interpret Genesis 1:26,27 as actually and literally meaning a plurality of God(s) would contradict the rest of scripture. Any of these 4 explanations could be adequate in explaining the plural usage in this passage.
Many thoughts and ideas were paraphrased from David Bernard's book The Oneness of God.
Ended as of 6/24/2001
Last Edited: 06/03/2009